Curse

Eridor · Jan 10, 2009, 12:58 AM // 00:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dograzor

I did not think about that, to be honest. For now all i suggest is to give the player the option of modifying the existing Proph + Fact wands. And if i can ask, what 2 mods are you mentioning? the 5^50 would be the basic stat (which became insc. in NF), and the 20 HSR is the mod. I would like to have Proph + Faction wands modded, NOT inscribed.

Actually that one is my bad. I forgot that there are only two staff wrappings and that the mods they provide can't be gotten through inscriptions.

*lighbulb* (just thought of this while I was typing above)
But there still is a problem because not all wands that have two mods have a mod that can be gotten through a wand wrapping.

Dograzor · Jan 10, 2009, 01:00 AM // 01:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eridor

*lighbulb* (just thought of this while I was typing above)
But there still is a problem because not all wands that have two mods have a mod that can be gotten through a wand wrapping.

Keep them that way, just give the player the option to "overwrite" the suffix.

Eridor · Jan 10, 2009, 01:04 AM // 01:04

Ok well if your idea is implemented then I guess players will get to choose which mod since one isn't decided to be the suffix.

Dograzor · Jan 10, 2009, 01:10 AM // 01:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyrael_Eveningsong

First off, I was mistaken Dograzor, and I modified my post accordingly. Zodiacs can ONLY be obtained in Urgoz' or The Deep, not from the Z-Chest.

OK. So it's ok for you to bitch about your wand cuz it's a rare skin, and you WANT IT YOUR WAY, but you are willing to destroy other wands, which don't have rare SKINS, but have rare or impossible to craft/upgrade/recreate mods?

You are a RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing retard.

Don't get me wrong, I understand what you are saying about Wands/Offhands not being able to be modified until NF... but if ANet made it that way, don't you think it was done for a PURPOSE? Just because you have YOUR panties in a twist over it doesn't mean that it bothers everyone as much as it does you. Why do you think that most people used Staffs in Proph/Factions? They could upgrade them... All they had to worry about was 2 inherent bonuses, HSR% and what would later become the inscription slot - they could still mod the Head and Wrapping. THEY DEALT WITH IT, YOU CRY ABOUT IT.

This egocentric bullshit is exactly why I let loose with flames.

Again.

QWITCHERBITCHIN.

/notsigned a second time

.

Hey, ill try to explain this to you as politely as i can.

No, Im not QQing about my wand, its a cheap one, i can replace it later, not a big deal.

When i tried to mod that particular wand, the zodiac wand, it struck me that after some research the wand is the ONLY damage dealing weapon that cannot be modded by a suffix. This is something i see as odd and as unlogical, since all other damage dealing weapons are modifieable.

Secondly, i do not wish to destroy any rare wands whatsoever, as solution to that i suggested that all wands can be given the OPTION to be able to be modded. The current mods dont change. Only now players can add another suffix mod IF needed.

And please, I have explained my case logically, do not flame me for qqing about my wand in the future. It is not of importance to me, I only want to see a game issue fixed.

Thank you.

Eridor · Jan 10, 2009, 01:20 AM // 01:20

I'm gonna have to disagree with you about that being an issue. The issue is not related to destroying rare wands. What will happen is that wands that were previously possibly worthless can be upgraded to become equivalent to a once rare and perfect weapon, dramtically decreasing the value of all perfect uninsc wands.

Dograzor · Jan 10, 2009, 01:27 AM // 01:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eridor

I'm gonna have to disagree with you about that being an issue. The issue is not related to destroying rare wands. What will happen is that wands that were previously possibly worthless can be upgraded to become equivalent to a once rare and perfect weapon, dramtically decreasing the value of all perfect uninsc wands.

That is true, and I'm afraid that i might make some unhappy millionaire enemies with this proposal...

But then, i do see it as an issue, since a wand is a damage dealing weapon, but it cannot be modded, unlike other caster damage dealing weapons, and other melee weapons. From that perspective, i see it as an issue.

As for the decreasing value, yes, again, i am aware of it. But then i do see it to be "right" to have wands be made moddable.

Konig Des Todes · Jan 10, 2009, 01:31 AM // 01:31

/signed because I am for making the inscription and modding retroactive.

Non-inscription mods should definably be retroactive at least. I see no reason why not.

Wands, Focuses, and Shields, a tiny portion of weapons, should be given mod-ability.

The only downside is the "impossible to recreate" mods that exist. But hey, they are non-recreatable for a reason.

Eridor · Jan 10, 2009, 01:34 AM // 01:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Konig Des Todes

The only downside is the "impossible to recreate" mods that exist. But hey, they are non-recreatable for a reason.

I didn't think of this. I guess there will still be wands around that are worth a lot because of the combination of mods that can't be achieved through an inscrpition and a wand wrapping.

Dograzor · Jan 10, 2009, 01:36 AM // 01:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eridor

I didn't think of this. I guess there will still be wands around that are worth a lot because of the combination of mods that can't be achieved through an inscrpition and a wand wrapping.

Yep, that i meant. Keep the wand stats original, just make the option to overwrite a mod.

StueyG · Jan 10, 2009, 02:25 AM // 02:25

Inscription weapons were one of the worst things added to the game - I vote to have them all removed. When I first started playing it was actually exciting to find a gold weapon, and hope you got a good damage mod on it. It added something to the game. If you just wanted the good mods you could craft what you wanted, if you wanted a nice, rare item, then you farmed it and worked for it. Not just for the monetary part of it, but the fact that you could actually find something unique. Just like in real life where if you see a nice car you are like "oh wow, I want that" but you cannot afford so you buy a cheaper one to get you around till you can one day possibly afford it.

If anything, ask A-Net to add more inscription versions to drop in Urgoz other than primaries, but do not ruin it for people that like to have a unique item. Because really in the end this is about your zodiac wand because most of the others can be crafted or such in some form or another.

But hey, having the same things and looking like everyone else is the cool thing....

/notsigned

Dograzor · Jan 10, 2009, 02:34 AM // 02:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by StueyG

Inscription weapons were one of the worst things added to the game - I vote to have them all removed. When I first started playing it was actually exciting to find a gold weapon, and hope you got a good damage mod on it. It added something to the game. If you just wanted the good mods you could craft what you wanted, if you wanted a nice, rare item, then you farmed it and worked for it. Not just for the monetary part of it, but the fact that you could actually find something unique. Just like in real life where if you see a nice car you are like "oh wow, I want that" but you cannot afford so you buy a cheaper one to get you around till you can one day possibly afford it.

If anything, ask A-Net to add more inscription versions to drop in Urgoz other than primaries, but do not ruin it for people that like to have a unique item. Because really in the end this is about your zodiac wand because most of the others can be crafted or such in some form or another.

/notsigned

Yes, you do have a valid point there... But well, the old days are gone, and since the new system is implented, i keep pointing out the the wand is not "updated" yet.

Ah well.. Yes, i can get any other air wand to replace it, and yes, i will, i need a better one anyways, but it just led me to figuring out that some wands cannot be modded.

_Nihilist_ · Jan 10, 2009, 02:38 AM // 02:38

The problem is, there is no 'opportunity' to retroactively upgrade a weapon that cannot be modified.

If they did it for wands, they would have to do so for offhand items as well, both foci and shields.

You do it for all, or you do it for none.

There are simply too many items in-game that have dropped/were crafted in Prophecies and Factions for this to be a viable avenue.

ANet has also NEVER done a "chance to retroactively upgrade" on any type of item before. It either was or was not inscribable, end of story. Again, this is probably due to the sheer amount of items that still exist in-game.

Dual Attribute Wands, Dual Inherent Inscription Items (such as dual reduction shields), and quite a few unreproducable and uncraftable weapons could be lost due to an update like this. It's not a question of rarity in total, but it is a question of how much ANet can change without cutting their own legs out from underneath them.

An update like this could destroy the in-game economy, not only on high-end trades (since your original post was talking about a Zodiac Scepter, which can go for a decent amount of cash if it's a perfect 20/20 tied to a non-primary attribute), but with the fact that all of a sudden, a Wand that wasn't worth as much as a high end item could jump in value, which causes serious inflation issues to COMMON items that just got a huge boost in viability, due to the fact that their off-mods or dual attribute mods could then be replaced.

If this happened, even if it was only to affect the Suffix mod (wrapping) of a wand, do you realize how much a Wand Wrapping of Memory would suddenly increase in value?

Do you realize how much a Wand that is relatively rare, and valuable to a collector (whether it was ANet's intention or not for it to exist, or for "Player Collectors" to occur - people will packrat anything they should have known) could suddenly become duplicated and rock-bottom in value?

It's not about the high-end traders, though they would be affected, it's about the in-game economy, the real life logistics of doing such an update, and how it would potentially change the game for the worse, not the better, that makes this suggestion far from viable.

People who don't understand how things work in the Big Picture will always push for what they see as a small change... but even a small crack in a foundation can erupt, and cause massive damage to the total structure overall, and that is what this update would more than likely do.

The short-term reward for players who are only focused on their little kilobytes of server space are not worth the risk of destroying the Bigger Picture, Guild Wars as a whole.

I think I've done a fairly decent job of explaining this, and keeping any accusatory/flame-driven remarks out of my post.

Counter the arguments posted here, and I would think about /signing. But for now, yet a third time, /notsigned.

Regards,

~ Nihilist

_Nihilist_ · Jan 10, 2009, 02:43 AM // 02:43

Yes, the wand IS updated.

Just not the Prophecies or Factions-dropped Wands.

Nor is my FoW-dropped Shadow Shield r9 Strength 16AL -5/19%, +1 Death Magic 20% updated... but I can get inscribable Shadow Shields, just not the one that dropped for me FoW, nor can I upgrade on of those inscribable Shadow Shields to have the same bonuses as my FoW dropped one has, as both bonuses are considered inscriptions by the Nightfall and later game code.

StueyG's idea is the only thing that would make sense to do. It would not take anything away from the other Zodiac Scepters in existence, but it would add to the ability to customize any you got from the End Chest, as well as adding the ability to get something other than a primary-attribute linked inscribable. It wouldn't endanger any existing game code, because if they added inscribables to the end chest in the first place, all they need to do is modify that little bit of code to include other attributes, whereas modifying ALL Proph and Factions dropped Wands is going to take more manpower and time than ANet is going to put on the project at this point.

Oh yeah. I agree 100% with this gem of a comment:

Quote:

Originally Posted by StueyG

Inscription weapons were one of the worst things added to the game - I vote to have them all removed. When I first started playing it was actually exciting to find a gold weapon, and hope you got a good damage mod on it. It added something to the game. If you just wanted the good mods you could craft what you wanted, if you wanted a nice, rare item, then you farmed it and worked for it. Not just for the monetary part of it, but the fact that you could actually find something unique...

While it is FAR easier to inscribe/upgrade something nowadays, I remember the days of selling unID'd r9 16AL Shadow Shields for 15-25k, where an ID'd Shadow Shield with perfect mods sold for 75k or more. I could have made tons of money selling them unID, but the chance that I would get a max bonus Shadow Shield kept me buying ID kits instead of spamming trade chat.

This is one reason I enjoy farming the Undead outside of Bergen Hot Springs on my 55 so much. I can still get that feeling of "what do I get?!?!?" when a gold drops. Case in point, I just got a req9 Fire Staff which will be a present for my wife's Elementalist... it is perfect except for the "inscription" inherent bonus, which is HCT Fire Magic 19%. Seeing as how HCT is capped at ~36% and I dropped a 20% Adept head on it, it will do JUST fine.

Horace Slughorn · Jan 10, 2009, 02:50 AM // 02:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyrael_Eveningsong

First off, I was mistaken Dograzor, and I modified my post accordingly. Zodiacs can ONLY be obtained in Urgoz' or The Deep, not from the Z-Chest.

OK. So it's ok for you to bitch about your wand cuz it's a rare skin, and you WANT IT YOUR WAY, but you are willing to destroy other wands, which don't have rare SKINS, but have rare or impossible to craft/upgrade/recreate mods?

You are a RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing retard.

Don't get me wrong, I understand what you are saying about Wands/Offhands not being able to be modified until NF... but if ANet made it that way, don't you think it was done for a PURPOSE? Just because you have YOUR panties in a twist over it doesn't mean that it bothers everyone as much as it does you. Why do you think that most people used Staffs in Proph/Factions? They could upgrade them... All they had to worry about was 2 inherent bonuses, HSR% and what would later become the inscription slot - they could still mod the Head and Wrapping. THEY DEALT WITH IT, YOU CRY ABOUT IT.

This egocentric bullshit is exactly why I let loose with flames.

Again.

QWITCHERBITCHIN.

/notsigned a second time

@MirkoTerran - if ANet wanted inscribable versions of every attribute for every skin in the game, they would be here. They aren't. This is ANet's way of saying "If you want a perfect wand that ISN'T a Primary Attribute Wand, go get it as a drop".

Can you show me how to put caps and bold and underline in my posts as well as you do, so it reads like im yelling.

Hyper Cutter · Jan 10, 2009, 03:56 AM // 03:56

/signed. There's no reason wand/shield/focus mods can't be applied to uninscribable weapons. They're mods, and no other weapon mods have this problem...

Eridor · Jan 10, 2009, 05:50 AM // 05:50

They are uninscribable because they already can have two inherent mods. Being able to add mods to the uninscribable items will negate the efforts of everybody who tried to get a Zodiac wand with both 5^50 and 20% HCT/HRT because OP only had to get one with 5^50.

Zamochit · Jan 10, 2009, 07:02 AM // 07:02

Just leave things as they are now ~

Trading has always been an fundemental aspect of the game, like it or not its there and its an important part of the economy. Some people want things BECAUSE they are rare, and because they are difficult to come by, NOT because of their functionality.

Let me take you back to days of yore....

At first people would argue that they were being priced out of the market and forced to scrape by with whatever Piece of junk they could get as a drop that would pass as a weapon, because ANY skin with decent inherent modifiers in GOLD would set people back a fortune, and there were very limited crafter and collecter options at that point. Even weapon mods were rediculously overpriced because when salvaging there was no guarantee you would get one or another of the mods on said weapon, more often than not you ended up with wood.

So people back in the very early days of Prophecies were in a position where they were looking at 300k plus for a passable low requirement weapon with decent inherent and non inherent modifiers. Pain in the arse huh?

Then ANET with the arival of Sorrows Furnace introduced 'Greens' into the game; which were low requirement weapons with guaranteed stats which could be farmed by all and sundry. This helped everyone get on a much more even footing in pve as most people could access a semi decent weapon.

Then they changed the salvage system whereby you could select a perticular mod on a perticular weapon and be GUARANTEED to get the mod (although you might lose the weapon) This lowered the value of weapon mods significantly and everyone was much happier.

Then Factions popped up with more crafter options, more collecter options and more yummy greens which made things even easier for people on a budget.

Now with Nightfall ( more crafter/collecter/green options of course) and the introduction of inscriptions to the game. Now, and this is the important part,

Every single "max" item that drops with an inscription slot drops as a perfect item. Fact.

You can mod it with any inherent you can get your hands on; weapon mods due to the revamped salvage system and with EOTN the new perfect salvage system are cheap and abundant. There is absolutely no reason you can't be running around with a cheap perfectly functional weapon or weapons with skin(s) that you like anymore.

Areanet have been brilliant in the way they have made "almost" everything accessable to all over the course of the games lifespan, but honestly making Tyrian and Canthan items retroactively inscribable would:-:

1) Cause a massive uproar among the games fanbase and destroy part of the games history.
2) Devastate an already wavering economy
3) Be a logistical nightmare in a time when the majority of the companys focus is on GW2.

So please, get a different skinned wand, and be thankfull you aren't playing three years ago with a purple raven staff with mixed mods because its all you could afford.

/endrant

spun ducky · Jan 10, 2009, 08:18 AM // 08:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zamochit

Just leave things as they are now ~

Trading has always been an fundemental aspect of the game, like it or not its there and its an important part of the economy. Some people want things BECAUSE they are rare, and because they are difficult to come by, NOT because of their functionality.

Let me take you back to days of yore....

At first people would argue that they were being priced out of the market and forced to scrape by with whatever Piece of junk they could get as a drop that would pass as a weapon, because ANY skin with decent inherent modifiers in GOLD would set people back a fortune, and there were very limited crafter and collecter options at that point. Even weapon mods were rediculously overpriced because when salvaging there was no guarantee you would get one or another of the mods on said weapon, more often than not you ended up with wood.

So people back in the very early days of Prophecies were in a position where they were looking at 300k plus for a passable low requirement weapon with decent inherent and non inherent modifiers. Pain in the arse huh?

Then ANET with the arival of Sorrows Furnace introduced 'Greens' into the game; which were low requirement weapons with guaranteed stats which could be farmed by all and sundry. This helped everyone get on a much more even footing in pve as most people could access a semi decent weapon.

Then they changed the salvage system whereby you could select a perticular mod on a perticular weapon and be GUARANTEED to get the mod (although you might lose the weapon) This lowered the value of weapon mods significantly and everyone was much happier.

Then Factions popped up with more crafter options, more collecter options and more yummy greens which made things even easier for people on a budget.

Now with Nightfall ( more crafter/collecter/green options of course) and the introduction of inscriptions to the game. Now, and this is the important part,

Every single "max" item that drops with an inscription slot drops as a perfect item. Fact.

You can mod it with any inherent you can get your hands on; weapon mods due to the revamped salvage system and with EOTN the new perfect salvage system are cheap and abundant. There is absolutely no reason you can't be running around with a cheap perfectly functional weapon or weapons with skin(s) that you like anymore.

Areanet have been brilliant in the way they have made "almost" everything accessable to all over the course of the games lifespan, but honestly making Tyrian and Canthan items retroactively inscribable would:-:

1) Cause a massive uproar among the games fanbase and destroy part of the games history.
2) Devastate an already wavering economy
3) Be a logistical nightmare in a time when the majority of the companys focus is on GW2.

So please, get a different skinned wand, and be thankfull you aren't playing three years ago with a purple raven staff with mixed mods because its all you could afford.

/endrant

I think this should be listed a second time as this is exactly correct. I also wanted to mention that if you have worked on the treasure hunter title like me you will know how poor inscribable chest running is since you can't really get anything of value. It just boils down to keeping some rarity in the game and I guarantee this much I would and many others would follow suit in quitting GW if there was absolutely nothing to trade in the economy. It is bad enough as it is last thing we need is even less reason to play.

Dograzor · Jan 10, 2009, 10:53 AM // 10:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyrael_Eveningsong

The problem is, there is no 'opportunity' to retroactively upgrade a weapon that cannot be modified.

If they did it for wands, they would have to do so for offhand items as well, both foci and shields.

You do it for all, or you do it for none.

An update like this could destroy the in-game economy, not only on high-end trades (since your original post was talking about a Zodiac Scepter, which can go for a decent amount of cash if it's a perfect 20/20 tied to a non-primary attribute), but with the fact that all of a sudden, a Wand that wasn't worth as much as a high end item could jump in value, which causes serious inflation issues to COMMON items that just got a huge boost in viability, due to the fact that their off-mods or dual attribute mods could then be replaced.

If this happened, even if it was only to affect the Suffix mod (wrapping) of a wand, do you realize how much a Wand Wrapping of Memory would suddenly increase in value?

Do you realize how much a Wand that is relatively rare, and valuable to a collector (whether it was ANet's intention or not for it to exist, or for "Player Collectors" to occur - people will packrat anything they should have known) could suddenly become duplicated and rock-bottom in value?

It's not about the high-end traders, though they would be affected, it's about the in-game economy, the real life logistics of doing such an update, and how it would potentially change the game for the worse, not the better, that makes this suggestion far from viable.

People who don't understand how things work in the Big Picture will always push for what they see as a small change... but even a small crack in a foundation can erupt, and cause massive damage to the total structure overall, and that is what this update would more than likely do.

The short-term reward for players who are only focused on their little kilobytes of server space are not worth the risk of destroying the Bigger Picture, Guild Wars as a whole.

I think I've done a fairly decent job of explaining this, and keeping any accusatory/flame-driven remarks out of my post.

Counter the arguments posted here, and I would think about /signing. But for now, yet a third time, /notsigned.

Regards,

~ Nihilist

I have read your post, and yes, i do see your point, and do respect your point of view on this matter.

I would like to comment on this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyrael_Eveningsong

If they did it for wands, they would have to do so for offhand items as well, both foci and shields.

You do it for all, or you do it for none.

I do disagree with this statement. I have no desire to change the modification option from offhands and shields, if somebody feels like doing that, please create a seperate thread. My line of reasoning is that the wand, is a damage dealing weapon, and therefore belongs to the family of moddable damage dealing weapons, who can all be modified. I would still regard it as an game issue, or a never implemented upgrade.

And yes, I do see the point that it would have a ripple effect through gw, wich may result in a change in the economy, but then again, i personally see it as something that should have implemented ages ago.

And for the flaming, no offense taken

And Zamochit, kind sir, let me go into your post, ive read it, and have a few remarks:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zamochit

Then they changed the salvage system whereby you could select a perticular mod on a perticular weapon and be GUARANTEED to get the mod (although you might lose the weapon) This lowered the value of weapon mods significantly and everyone was much happier.

Yes, i see how the GW timeline goes, and just for a little note, it wasn't guaranteed to get the mod back in the good old days, i remember trying to salvage mods of weapons that times, that you would lose the weapon, but also have the chance to get the weapon's crafting items, adding a huge risk of trying to remove a perfect mod to a weapon.. heh... ive lost some pretty valuable mods that way... good old days

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zamochit

Every single "max" item that drops with an inscription slot drops as a perfect item. Fact.

Yes, true to this part. But again, i do NOT wish to make the wand inscripable, i only want to see it "fixed" so it can be modded by a suffix mod, just like any other damage dealing weapon.

I do see the perspectives of both of you, and do respect them, but i will stick to my opinion in thisone, that is, make it possible to mod a wand like any other damage dealing weapon ingame.

The Arching Healer · Jan 10, 2009, 11:11 AM // 11:11

/notsigned

If you don't know why, you are r.e.t.a.r.d.e.d